https://www.podbean.com/ep/dir-8vimq-2401bc23
During an appearance on the latest episode of “Talk Is Jericho”, the podcast hosted by wrestling superstar and FOZZY frontman Chris Jericho, KISS guitarist Paul Stanley was asked why there weren’t any guest appearances by former KISS members at the band’s final shows at New York City’s Madison Square Garden in New York City in December 2023. Paul responded (as transcribed by BLABBERMOUTH.NET): “To be somewhat diplomatic, there were people who made unrealistic demands of what they required. And it’s not about that. It wasn’t, for example, a celebration of the beginning of the band; it was a celebration of 50 years of a band, as opposed to a tribute to the start. So, as far as Ace [Frehley, original KISS guitarist] and Peter [Criss, original KISS drummer], they weren’t there for many reasons. And I’ve said it a hundred times and I’ll say it another hundred times. We couldn’t be here today without what those guys did, and we couldn’t be here today with them.”
Asked by Jericho about the lack of any mention of other former KISS members, such as Eric Carr, Bruce Kulick and Mark St. John, Stanley said: “What are you gonna do? I think the best way to honor everyone is to be the best we can be. What are we gonna have — videos up on the screen or draped photos? The fact that we were there, we were there because of everybody who participated, some more than others, but the tribute to everyone is us existing.”
Regarding how he feels about KISS‘s legacy, especially in light of the fact that bands like THE ROLLING STONES are still continuing to play and record music, Paul said: “I think the legacy is only gonna grow. I think it’s only gonna get bigger. THE STONES are an interesting one. At some point, what’s it gonna be? THE STONE? ‘I’m gonna see THE ROLLING STONE.’ They have survived more decades than us, certainly, and are an institution. People go to see them because it’s THE STONES. So, I think that over time we’ll only get bigger because you become more powerful the longer you exist.”
Paul added: “When we were doing the ‘End Of The Road’ tour, I think we became almost superheroes because we were timeless and we didn’t change that greatly. People would come to see us and go, ‘Wow, they look like they did 40 years ago.’ You didn’t get that close to us. But, yeah, I think KISS is timeless and that KISS will just transcend everything it’s been.”
Last year, ex-KISS guitarist Bruce Kulick told Finland’s Chaoszine that Stanley and fellow KISS founder Gene Simmons “missed a really huge opportunity” when they failed to acknowledge any of the band’s former members during the final concert. “It’s not just about me,” Bruce clarified. “[They also didn’t mention late KISS drummer] Eric Carr, Ace and Peter, and [late KISS manager] Bill Aucoin. Come on. Terrible. They really missed making a better feel-good evening for everyone when it was much closer to every night before. And those who say, ‘Well, I saw you up on the screen.’ They’d been doing that for years where they’d have little things. So they didn’t feel it was important. I feel they missed an opportunity.”
In January 2024, Frehley explained to Rock Candy magazine why he never made it on stage with KISS for their final show at Madison Square Garden after last leaving the band back in 2002.
“Fans would constantly reach out to me and say, ‘Ace, please come back to the band,'” Frehley explained. “So the fans were and are my primary motivators, and I want them to know that I did try, but I couldn’t make it happen. They never asked me.”
Frehley dismissed the idea that his well-documented troubles with drugs and alcohol could ever have been a reason for Simmons and Stanley not reaching out to him.
“I’m sober, and all my friends and associates will tell you as much,” he stated categorically. “I got to the point in life where drugs and alcohol had taken me over, and I’m just so happy to be away from all that.”
Despite the much-reported rifts with Simmons and Stanley over many years, nevertheless Frehley insisted that he still had affection for both of them.
“I want people to know that I do love Paul and Gene,” he said. “I wish things would have been different, but it wasn’t to be…” Nor does Frehley hold any animosity towards his replacement Tommy Thayer. “He’s a good guy and deserves a break,” Ace said. “He’s not me, but he was never going to be me. In a lot of ways, his task was impossible.”
In November 2023, prior to KISS‘s final concert, Frehley told Mark Strigl of SiriusXM‘s Ozzy’s Boneyard that he didn’t hold a grudge against KISS, despite all the badmouthing that had gone on between him and some of the other original KISS members in recent years.
“I wish KISS the best, all the best on their final shows for the ‘End Of The Road’ tour,” he said. “There’s really no hard feelings. We say things sometimes in the heat of passion or sometimes our memory isn’t… [we don’t] recall things. But I love those guys. We’re all getting old, our memory isn’t what it used to be, so I just let it roll off my back.”
Also in November 2023, Simmons lamented the absence of Frehley and Criss at KISS‘s final shows, telling 519 Magazine: “I feel sad. I feel sad and angry that both Ace and Peter aren’t here. I mean, they’re alive, but they’re not here to enjoy this unbelievable journey with us. They were there at the beginning and deserve all the credit. And when they look in the mirror, the only reason they’re not here with us is themselves.
“Inviting them was as much for the fans as it was for us. KISS has always been about the whole, not the individual. It would’ve been fitting to have all of us there, one last time.”
In June 2023, Gene was asked by Barbara Caserta of Linea Rock about the possibility of Ace and Peter making guest appearances at the band’s last-ever concerts in December 2023 at Madison Square Garden in New York City. He responded: “For the fans — the older, older fans — the ones who’ve been around for 50 years, they’re old, and some of them wanna see Ace and Peter. The newer fans never saw them and they don’t know. But the older fans wonder about Ace and Peter. Well, I asked both Ace and Peter a few times: ‘Do you wanna come out for the encores? Do you wanna do some shows?’ And they both said ‘no.’ So, I don’t know what to say about that… But it’s always welcome. But there are many other big stars, superstars, who wanna jump up onstage and play a song. But we’re not sure about that. Maybe the best thing to do is to end the way we started: four guys with guitars. No keyboards, no synthesizers — nothing. Just playing.”
In April 2023, Frehley told SiriusXM‘s “Trunk Nation With Eddie Trunk” that he was still open to playing with KISS at the band’s final shows in New York City. “Money motivates me, just like it motivates them, but I don’t put money before God,” he explained. “If I got a quarter of a million dollars a night, and I can make half a million dollars for playing three or four songs, five songs, I’d take the money. [I’d] buy a Ferrari… buy a Maserati. [Laughs] I don’t really wanna play with those guys ever again after what they’ve done, but money can change my mind.”
Frehley continued: “Look, I’m a capitalist. I grew up in America. But I’d never put money before people’s feelings. I like money as much as the next guy does, but money isn’t my God, like it is theirs. They’re all atheists. Whatever they can do or say, whether it’s true or false, as long as it makes them the most amount of money, they’re gonna do [it].”
Ace also addressed the issue of whether he would perform with KISS at the band’s final concerts while wearing his trademark “Spaceman” makeup — the same makeup his replacement Tommy Thayer had been sporting for more than two decades. “Sure. For a quarter of a million dollars,” he said, explaining that “I’m a good-looking guy. I don’t need the makeup.”
When Trunk pressed Ace about what he thought the odds were of him playing with KISS at the final concerts in New York, Frehley said: “It all depends on money. If I get a formal invitation with a check, I’ll be there. But they’ve gotta have deep pockets… If they don’t wanna pay me, I won’t be there, ladies and gentleman.”
Ace also once again confirmed that he had never received a formal invitation to join his former bandmates at their last-ever shows. “Absolutely not,” he said. “From what I understand, the shows are sold out. The only reason they sold out is they made innuendos that me and Peter were gonna be there, [that] they invited us. I wasn’t invited. They lie all the time. Haven’t they said, ‘We’re inviting Ace and Peter to come up and play?’ Or at least me? Multiple times. So, people bought the tickets. But I haven’t been given a formal invitation or given an offer monetarily. And I’m probably not gonna get one now after this interview. And guess what: I don’t give a shit.”
Despite everything that has been said between all the parties, Ace claimed that he still looked back fondly on his time with KISS and he didn’t hate his former bandmates.
“Look, the bottom line is this: deep down in my heart, I love those guys, because we created something so special that it will be remembered for years,” he said. “When we’re all dead and buried, there will still be people listening to KISS music. And I’m overjoyed. But I want my legacy to be cleared of any of this bullshit and lies.”
KISS launched its farewell trek in January 2019 but was forced to put it on hold in 2020 due to the COVID-19 pandemic.
“End Of The Road” was originally scheduled to conclude on July 17, 2021 in New York City but was later extended to late 2023. The trek was announced in September 2018 following a KISS performance of the band’s classic song “Detroit Rock City” on “America’s Got Talent”.
In a June 2022 interview with Finland’s Chaoszine, Simmons was asked if Frehley and Peter would have any involvement in KISS‘s final concerts. He responded: “We’ve tried. I keep trying. Paul and I met with Ace, trying to convince him to come back. He said, ‘I want this. I want that.’ Well, we can’t do that. I asked Ace and Peter to be in the documentary [‘Biography: KISStory’, which premiered on A&E in June 2021]. They said no. They might do it if they have complete control of the edit. I said, ‘We can’t do that, because even we don’t have that. But I won’t control what you say; you can say whatever you want.’ The answer is no — both of them. I asked Ace and Peter, ‘Come out on tour. We’ll get you your own room and everything. Come out on the encores.’ Ace said, ‘No. The only way I’ll come out is if I’m the Spaceman and you ask Tommy [Thayer, KISS‘s current guitarist] to leave.’ I go, ‘Well, that’s not gonna happen.’ First of all, I care about Ace, but he’s not in shape — he can’t play that way and doesn’t have the physical stamina to do that…
“Look, we care about them,” Gene added. “We started this thing together and they were equally important to the beginning of the band with Paul and I — no question. But as time went on… Not everybody is designed to run a marathon. Some people are designed to be in a band for a year or two, or a few years, and then that’s all they can do. And both of them have been in the band three different times. How many chances in life do you get? All I know is when I put my hand in fire the first time, I got burnt; I didn’t get a second or third chance.
“So, the answer is the door’s always open,” Simmons said. “If they wanna jump on stage at any time and do the encores with us, terrific. But no, we’re not gonna get rid of Tommy or Eric [Singer, current KISS drummer]. In fact, Tommy and Eric are the best things that happened to us. They gave us new life [and] new appreciation for what we do because they were fans first. And every once in a while, Eric or Tommy will turn around and say, ‘Wow! Isn’t this great?’ And it makes us realize, ‘Yeah! Wow! Isn’t this great?'”
Gene was also asked if he saw any of the video footage from the May 2022 Creatures Fest in Nashville where Criss, Frehley and fellow former KISS members Vinnie Vincent and Bruce Kulick all performed. He responded: “Somebody showed me about 30 seconds, yeah. It was very sad. I felt sad for Peter… When I called to invite Peter to be in the documentary, his health isn’t what it should be. I don’t wanna get too specific because it’s part of his private life. But no, physically, he wouldn’t be able to do it. Neither would Ace.”
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